[Greg D]

To understand these spiritual principles, you need to go back to the beginning. God is a spirit and his first creation was began with spiritual beings or ministering spirits known to us as angels. This creation was done by the movement of his Holy spirit or by his right hand, which over time came to be known as his word or his son. Gods spirit then created or spoke into being, a natural realm in the form of the universe and in turn the planet earth. In the first days or Hebrew yoms (meaning indeterminate periods of time) in earths history. The ground work for our existence was established, the sun to light the day and the moon to light the night, also to separate, periods of time and seasons, the water cycles and the atmosphere also to heat the planet.
Then God began to populate every land mass on the earth with an ecosystem of incredibly diverse creatures and vegetation. He then said let us make man in our image (potential image) so he then created man ( the Hebrew word Baw - Raw, or made from nothing) in all mankind's diversity of race, colour and language and furnished the whole planet with them.
These people were, and still are hunters and gatherers, farmers and keepers of animals. Some live in caves (but are not cavemen) some build amazing cities, not one of them are primitive or back ward, everyone has the potential to be in Gods image. This creation has access to every tree for food.
Then the story changes, Gods name becomes the Lord God, He then forms a man from the dust (Hebrew word is Yaw - Tsar as a potter forms clay) he places him in a special, unique separate environment, the garden of Eden. He breathes the breath of life into him to become a living soul. The animals, unlike those outside the garden (which came first, before man's creation), are given to Adam after his formation as companions, to be named by him. Eve is taken from Adam also as a companion, together they become mankind's representatives in this scenario.
Adam, is given a task to perform, to tend and care for the Garden. He is also, as is Eve, presented with a choice, the two trees. One by which they both have access to and can live forever. The other if they eat the fruit of it, they will begin to die. People may speculate about what the garden of Eden was, is it an experiment, a simulation, a hologram, my understanding is that it is just full of spiritual truths.
We have no way of determining how long Adam and Eve were there, or for that matter how long those outside of the garden have been there either. The clock started ticking from the time Adam and Eve were deceived. Not only for them, but all mankind by the way, from that moment.
The deception began when one of the Spiritual beings from the beginning, took the form of a serpent and presented an alternative narrative to the one given by God to Adam. Gen 3:1  Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen 3:2  And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3  But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die (her extra version about touch added to Gods command). Gen 3:4  And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (this was a lie, as from that day the death process began)
Gen 3:5  For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. (from that day on, all of mankind had to chose, either believe God or the Devil)
Gen 3:6  And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. (this tree is a perfect description of the internet, which contains good and evil, and also, so called wisdom.) Sometimes it's fruit is deadly.
Gen 3:7  And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. Gen 3:8  And they heard the voice of the LORD God (the son of God) walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. ( The open relationship they enjoyed with the creator, was replaced with shame and guilt).
As the descendants of Adam and Eve are cast out of the garden they encounter the people outside, those people are without shame and are sometimes naked, they became quickly corrupted by Adams offspring. Which by the way are a mixed bag, containing the knowledge of Gods plan but also a mixture of the knowledge of good and evil (which is today's religion). Does this mean the experiment was a failure? The answer is no, but it required a direct intervention, by Jesus the son of God to get back on track. John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:10  He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. (still doesn't)
Joh 1:11  He came unto his own, and his own received him not. John 1:12  But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (the potential image of God).
Mortal in Greek means the dying man . This is the result of Adam and our own first birth being natural. Jesus said we need to be born again or born spiritually to access the kingdom of God. Which means mortal becomes immortal, allowing access to the tree of life, once again. Then if we make the right choice we have access to God by the spirit and whatever comes next.
Before the barrage of the history of religion begins. I have posted this as an alternative overview of the meaning of our existence. It's still everyone's choice what they chose to eat the fruit of in the end.

[The Apprentice]

I can see it alll now, a mensturating vestile virgin sat upon a seat dangling inside a sacred well upon Mount Parnassus, she is delerious and under the influence of mushrooms cooked up by the shaman and speaking a mixed vocabulary while the Magi are supposedly trying to elaborate and translate what she is saying, sorry Greg it is simply too hard for any sober person to comprehend.

I often wondered how a spirit or gas can suddenly create the big bang and all sorts of creatures appear from the catalist and emptiness/vaccum of space, the more one tries to comprehend this gobbledigook the harder they might have to read into it to keep the miracle/Con-fu-Sion going, this miracle has been broken by science Greg many times over and change to suit the intuition or lack of it depending on which dark age we were plunged into.

Yet the astronomers say they see gods hand at work still, creating new stars and old ones going, Super Nova/Big Bang which no doubt mankind has visually witnessed before and then dreampt up all sorts of stories thereafter, under the influence of the Ambrosia/Narcotics, where their minds are no longer their own during or after mass hypnosis.

The tree of life is a genetic line, it twists up just like the humble runner bean up its poll, unwound it creates a Jackobs ladder type structure.

Many Yeoman farmers of yesteryear could accurately trace back through their animal records like we do today with genetic readings and were able to predict certain traits within their stock, just as did the Greeks could and recorded their social experimants also, read "Plato" they knew it existed back then but could not see it directly.

Once again I direct the eye back to the Greek texts, who saw the perfect being which they called Telios, which was their name for the Sun in the sky, an Hermaphrodite or perfect being, neither one or the other but the beginning and the end, the I am Iam, Jes-us.

On many ancient Greek graves there is often two XX's here is the beginning/birth and the end death, or the beginning of summer in their elcliptical calander 21 March and the other the end of summer in the balance of 23 Sept, hereafter their lives were truly in the balance as many are still today as winter or off season aproches, unless your on the equator itslef like Figi and many others where a common equilibrium is to be found.

Other translations of these XX was goodbye good fellow IE, he who was is no longer.

Like all of the evidences from the Greek records they have all been twisted like our DNA and corrupted by all religions which are themselves cults, and nature can stand by and thrive regardless of creek colour or culture wherever it my reign.

We might all wake up and cherish it like the child at the breast of Eden itself, because we are reliant on this for our longevity and what we create in our image, and reap what we sew.

And if you search hard enough for the Greek terms for birth you will find it, see below.



I suggest you look further back from the books you quote from Greg, because without the Knowledge your thesis is moot at the very best, this is conjecture from a super power who was living alongside nature and all (s-he) gives freely.

[Greg D]

What I have presented here is a rundown of how we got here, and what we are here for. Perhaps instead of mocking what I have said, you can present an alternative. Anyone with any intelligence should rule out, humans appearing on earth after some big bang. That's like saying new life is created out of all the explosions, in Yemen and in Syria.
Just to set the record straight spirit is not gas, it is the invisible life force.*[[Heb 11:3]] KJV* Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Yes there are plenty of books, but only one was written by God. If you present a believable alternative to what I have presented, people can make up their own mind.

[The Apprentice]

What I have presented here is a rundown of how we got here, and what we are here for. Perhaps instead of mocking what I have said, l you can present an alternative.

Anyone with any intelligence should rule out, humans appearing on earth after some big bang.

Thats like saying new life is created out of all the explosions, in Yemen and in Syria.

Just to set the record straight spirit is not gas, it is the invisible  life force.*[[Heb 11:3]] KJV* Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Yes there are plenty of books but only one was written by God.  If you present a believable alternative to what I have presented, people can make up their own mind.

No it is not Greg, it is here-say, your minds eye reads and these thoughts which are not your own speak the words into existance.

I have given to you many viable, visible and physical evidence not conjecture, of how nature follows "The Spirit", which is an oxymoron to label of what is a gas/spirit.

Again if you take all new plant shoots as they emmerge from the womb/Cella in Pheonician or Ammonian Radicals, of the earth/mother, they do their merry dance and twist to the invisible spirit or which you speak, this energy force is not the suns energy but a quantum energy which science has already measured.
Even when the sun sets the seedlings still continue to dance in the dark, its called Circumnutation, have you ignored the science I share earlier Greg, I think so?

One can call any idea or thought process anything we like, that is the beauty of having free thought and the freedom of choice, that is how it works, but if one continually reffers back to one book/s of ages which are at best a very weak argument for resolving anything, then like all roads followed precisely to their end, they tend to lead absolutely nowhere, by design, Codex, Parable, Riddles and a plethora of control mechanisms that totally ignore nature itself, our on world Eden and life long carer.

Again here is a video of the invisible force being followed by the physical.

Watch carefully as the planrt continues to follow the life force even as the day turns into night, even when the lights are left on, there is only one true force that the plants follow, even in complete darkness, go out into a garden at night and observe the position of the plant every hour and you will have the answer to the science of nature and what drives in and everything in it, humans included.

https://youtu.be/erNNiVwZXv8

No books are needed only the insight to see what is right in front of the eyes, that nature is showing us THE force they all follow, all this is plant language and natural.
See winter turn into spring and then into summer and a kind of life that was not unto death come back to life once again, the bible does share this most simple of all concepts for those who can see and understand, and others who follow their seasoned pied pipers and not understand, even the childs nursery rythm says it all.

That book is nature which is a physical and visible interpretation of the life force, where suns call out to suns in lucid orbs conspire.

And so the Mystery continues and man remains without an answer, but they could live better lives with that which is given freely.

[Greg D]

What troubles you Apprentice it seems is the fact that I believe that it is God, who controls and who put into motion all of what you believe exists. Are you the voice of reason and knowledge on this Forum and feel compelled to correct what I believe in. All I have done is put forward a who and a why for what we can all clearly see around us. Two questions by the way, which have fascinated mankind since the beginning.
Obviously there is not a grain of truth in what I have presented here in this thread and for that matter on this Forum for you. I read in your reply that these questions are a mystery. Your issue is with the fact that I believe that I have found the answer to it and that you don't like what it is. It seems everyone else on this Forum shares your view which means it's not much of a debate or a search for answers. I guess it's my job it seems to put across the God point of view. *[[Mar 6:34]] KJV* And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion toward them, because they were as sheep not having a shepherd: and he began to teach them many things. Just another quote from my teacher who called me by name, to follow him. Perhaps through me he is calling you also. Does anyone else have an opinon? Or are you all, Apprentices.

[The Apprentice]

What troubles you Apprentice it seems is the fact that I believe that it is God, who controls and who put into motion all of what you believe exists.

Are you the voice of reason and knowledge on this Forum and feel compelled to correct what I believe in. All I have done is put forward a who and a why for what we can all clearly see around us. Two questions by the way, which have fascinated mankind since the beginning.  

Obviously there is not a grain of truth in what I have presented here in this thread and for that matter on this Forum for you. I read in your reply that these questions are a mystery. Your issue is with the fact that I believe that I have found the answer to it and that you don't like what it is. It seems everyone else on this Forum shares your view which means it's not much of a debate or a search for answers.

 I guess it's my job it seems to put across the God point of view.  *[[Mar 6:34]] KJV* And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion toward them, because they were as sheep not having a shepherd: and he began to teach them many things. Just another quote from my teacher who called me by name, to follow him. Perhaps through me he is calling you also. Does anyone else have an opinon? Or are you all, Apprentices.

It bothers me not if you believe that is your choice, I mearely add my own findings to this or any other debate using science from nature as she shows of them, infact everyone can view them if they go and look for what I have pointed out, but one must look at her directly not through a computer, TV program or book without pictures.

Am I the word of wisdom anywhere, maybe, maybe not, why ask the question Greg, when you do this your half way to thinking some of my conjecture just might hold water, which is one of the four ellements of nature and life itself.

One has to guess when they read spurious language and parable without any true author/s other than those who reverberate someone elses ideologies, because that is what they are, however! the science of nature I have shared is very clear to see it if you so choose.

As I have said before, we are all born with the spirit/knowledge "of how things could be" that tells us the good from bad, this is not a myth/invisible entity, we all feel and know it, and choose the paths we all take of our own accord, please do not try to bring in an outside force or imaginary being to carry the blame away from the individual who knows fine well what he or she does just before the act, even when under the effects of narcotics and alcohol, because to do this is lying to ones self.

I see all religions and belief systems as an excuse to ignore ones own responsibilities, an act of cowardise to ward off punishment in the here and now, basically pathetic human beings who can no longer think for themselves and pass the blame onto another innocent somewhere else.

Am I bitter, Nope, but I will try to do as much good while I am alive, I will shepherd myself and accept my own weaknesses, that is the very basisc of life, not an ideology or an excuse to make the same mistakes all over again and then ask for forgiveness knowing your own guilt.

Do you do your job/pastor freely as the Jesus in the bible did, does any preacher do this?, if not they are what the bible calls a false prophet, I share my knowledge and skills freely does that make me a prophet, NO, so if you cannot survive on your own morals and products post facto BTW, then what a waste of human injinuity and energy that is for everyone.

So what proof have you other than words in a book to what your sharing, and how does one bring reality to light and warmth which is another of the four basic ellements which nature/mankind also needs for its own longevity.

Maybe you cannot give the answers, but I already have.

[Greg D]

You have acknowledged by the name you go by Apprentice, that your ideas come from the teachings of others. That teaching became a truth to you by observation. Likewise my conversion from being an atheist to being a Christian, came from my observation of the miracles I witnessed before my own eyes, which were then confirmed after I read them in the Bible. I have put together this thread by the revelations I have received from the Holy Spirit that now lives within me.
*[[Rom 8:16]] KJV* The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: we all have a natural spirit to start with but we need his Spirit to be children of God. This truth is the essence of this thread whether you choose to except it or not. Yes what I do is free, I don't receive a wage. Freely I have received freely I give to others.

[The Apprentice]

You have acknowledged by the name you go by Apprentice, that your ideas come from the teachings of others. That teaching became a truth to you by observation. Likewise my conversion from being an atheist to being a Christian, came from my observation of the miracles I witnessed before my own eyes, which were then confirmed after I read them in the Bible.

I have put together this thread by the revelations I have received from the Holy Spirit that now lives within me.
*[[Rom 8:16]] KJV* The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: we all have a natural spirit to start with but we need his Spirit to be children of God.

This truth is the essence of this thread whether you choose to except it or not. Yes what I do is free, I don't receive a wage. Freely I have received freely I give to others.

I gained my visions or answers from observing nature and the heavens as they pass daily within nature, I was not told it but shown it first hand, I have not questioned your own visions at all, but I only have your word for it, my visions can be seen by everyone if they cared to look at what is right in front of them, this is real evidence for who ever looks.

You have put things together by being told it by reading into what others, who might not have seen anything at all, which is roughly 99 percent correct if the truth be known, where a spoken word is given but those who hear never check things for themselves, to me this is the ultimate kind of blind belief one can possibly adhear to without question, and the same story and the same journey will come around and around without any real answers.

Here is a simple message from a wise person.

https://youtu.be/bqneuXP4n3k

Humans have the ability to be and see how things might be, as an individual if I am asked to forgo any kind of freedoms on the whim of a few words in any books without authors then I refrain from this propaganda and choose my own journey, this is how it must be for me.

[Greg D]

The guy on the video, would make a good politician. He has the ability to speak for awhile and sound wise but in reality say nothing. Just like fairy floss it has a lot of bulk and it is sweet but it has no substance. During my drug days if someone had said things like that guy, I would have said man that's deep. Then again I thought Pink Floyd's two lost soils swimming in a fish bowl, year after year was a deep statement. If you think guys like him are speaking a truth, perhaps you need to keep looking. Jesus spoke truths that were and still are backed up with powerful substance. He never wasted a single word he spoke. As every word Jesus spoke, had great power contained in it. The words of life and of creation. I wouldn't be hanging my hat on guys like the you tube guy. To me he just sounded like the blind leading the blind into another ditch.

[The Apprentice]

The guy on the video, would make a good politician. He has the ability to speak for awhile and sound wise but in reality say nothing. Just like fairy floss it has a lot of bulk and it is sweet but it has no substance. During my drug days if some had said things like that guy, I would have said man that's deep. Then again I though Pink Floyd's two lost soils swimming in a fish bowl, year after year was a deep statement. If you think guys like him are speaking a truth, perhaps you need to keep looking. Jesus spoke truths that were and still are backed up with powerful substance. He never wasted a single word he spoke. As every  word Jesus spoke, had great power contained in it. The words of life and of creation. I wouldn't be hanging my hat on guys like the you tube guy. To me he just sounded like the blind leading the blind into another ditch.

Lets wait and see what happens then, good luck Greg.