FB POST - Contract Law Private Trusts
Question -
Hi All,
Just received this letter from a debt collection company applying for a warrant in order to install pre payment meters or collect money.
As far as I know, and correct me if I’m wrong, using what is in effect a criminal warrant for a monetary issue is illegal. Also, forcing entry can only apply if there is a health and safety risk.
Anyway, a court hearing is due in about 3 weeks so any help and advice on the best way forward would be great…
I’m going to send a letter along the following lines …
I have agreed to pay all bills in full upon receipt of
1) lawful contract; and
2) proper bill; and
3) full and complete statement of accounts.
For clarity, a lawful contract will include;
a) full disclosure [nothing added or removed after signing]; and
b) consideration [all signatories get what they want from the contract]; and
c) lawful terms and conditions [only fair!]; and
d) the wet signatures of all contracting parties.
Bill senders are reminded full VAT receipts are required for any and all transactions.
Answers -
They have stated in the paperwork they are using the gas act which can only gain entry for health and safety (gas leak) as you mentioned and then use the electricity act to change the meters once in the property. You can either deadbolt the doors inside as they can only drill the lock (no forced entry allowed) or you can turn up to the court with a recent gas safety certificate to have the warrant withdrawn. They are applying for a criminal warrant for monetary purpose which is the wrong jurisdiction.
can they only drill ONE lock though?
If no one is at home... you cany bolt it. So.. we can add locks with key....?
you can buy electronic door handles which are a thing now which are keyless and you open with an app on the phone so no lock to drill. If they see three keyholes they may try and drill all of them, I have fitted three deadbolts on front and back door but not drilled the keyhole through so only work when I'm in the property. I do have a rear gate that is locked, so they should not access that area but they do break the law.
I have fitted some remote controlled bolts which can be locked/unlocked from the outside
If you haven't done so already, change your meters and when they come show them the old ones. This should stop them. It worked for us. Any attempt to remove your property is theft.
yes, was thinking about that but not sure whether to do it right now or not…
This letter isn’t even signed
correct, so it’s more of a threat I would have thought
Yes exactly that I have not paid electric in years and just bin their letters. I live in council flats so hard for them to do anything,they would properly need permission from council to damage the door to the meter. For gas safety i'm not sure as I thought you can get an approved contractor to do that without your gas company approval.
No wet ink and it is not a warrant. lol!
All energy companies are operating as credit brokers and are supposed to tell you, mine does. So under the consumer credit act 1974 a signed credit agreement has to be signed by both parties section 61. Also under section 155 it says we're protected and if no credit agreement has been signed anything over £5 has to be refunded. Citizens advice have lots of useful information on this …. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/197...ection/155
Credit brokers explained … https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-a...explained/
Taking action over credit brokers … https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-a...t-brokers/
Thats interesting as their own legislation states the debt (bill whatever) is unenforceable same as debt collectors.
If the grid has been sold to Australia would the .gov websites into still apply?
Yeah the companies are still registered under companies house
Under the gas and electric act 2006 section 4 they are not allowed to fit a prepaid metre to collect a debt and if they do they are committing perjury upon you. I was nearly a victim of this
most people don't know this Frank!!!
Did you go to the court to challenge it?
didn't have to I proved the fraud
So you just did it via letters and notices after they sent you a notice to say they were coming to fit a prepayment meter? And was this dealing direct with the utility company? Sorry to ask a lot of questions, but it's always great to hear from people who have actually done it.
no paperwork the turned up up went to change m i show them what they were doing was perjury they took the m out their own M Out and left with me with nothing
So, did you put your own in after that?
Point number 4 …. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/2011/made
I had British Gas turn up to my property and change my metered to prepaid when I wasn’t home! I had no idea they are committing perjury!!
Wonder if there is a way I can have them change back?!
County Courts Act 1984 … https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/198...ection/135
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/198...ection/135
135
Penalty for falsely pretending to act under authority of court.
Any person who—
(a)
delivers or causes to be delivered to any other person any paper falsely purporting to be a copy of any summons or other process of [F1the county court] , knowing it to be false; or
(b)
acts or professes to act under any false colour or pretence of the process or authority of [F1the county court] ;
shall be guilty of an offence and shall for each offence be liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years.
So you paid a qualified engineer to change your gas meter and, for whatever reason, you find yourself with enforcement agents (and possibly police) at your door waving around a “warrant of entry” claiming that they have grounds due to the possibility you have an unsafe device fitted.
What are you going to do?
1. Do not answer to or give your name
2. Ask to see the warrant
3. Check the warrant is valid with local court
4. Ask what grounds they have for their claim
Do not let them in. If you find yourself in a situation where you feel you have no choice or they gain access without your permission then please take note of the following information that I found in the gas act legislation.
2)
The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision for empowering any officer authorised by the relevant authority—
(a)
to enter any premises in which there is a service pipe connected with a gas main, for the purpose of inspecting any gas fitting on the premises, any flue or means of ventilation used in connection with any such gas fitting, or [F2any part of the gas system on the premises, that is to say,]any service pipe or other apparatus (not being a gas fitting) which is on the premises and is used for the [F2conveyance or]supply of gas or is connected with a gas main;
(b)
where he so enters any such premises, to examine or apply any test to any such object as is mentioned in paragraph (a) above and (where the object is a gas fitting) to verify what supply of air is available for it; and
©
where in his opinion it is necessary to do so for the purpose of averting danger to life or property, and notwithstanding any contract previously existing, to disconnect and seal off any gas fitting or any part of the [F3gas system on the premises, or disconnect the premises or, if the premises are not connected, to signify the refusal of the relevant authority to convey gas or, as the case may be, allow gas to be conveyed to the premises].
(3)
Where any regulations under subsection (2) above confer any power in accordance with paragraph © of that subsection, the regulations shall also include provision—
(a)
for securing that, where any such power is exercised, the consumer will be notified as to the nature of the defect or other circumstances in consequence of which it has been exercised;
(b)
for enabling any consumer so notified to appeal to the Secretary of State on the grounds that the defect or other circumstances in question did not constitute a danger such as to justify the action taken in the exercise of the power, or did not exist or have ceased to exist; and
©
for enabling the Secretary of State to give such directions as may in accordance with the regulations be determined by him to be appropriate in consequence of any such appeal.
It means that should they enter your property and make the decision to remove the meter you had fitted and replace it or cap your supply pending a reconnection process then they must inform you of why they are taking any action. They are limited to safety issues in order to remove a device or interrupt your supply.
If they can present no safety issue then they can not remove your property.
They must also inform you of your right to appeal their decision.
Again, these bullies are entering peoples homes and not following the regulations by which they are bound and WE are allowing them to get away with it.
Please share this information and never forget that knowledge is power.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/44/section/18
great info there Julie! Many thanks
your welcome we've got to stick together
Correct, nothing in the act states the removal of property for a monetary issue. That's why they use the 1989 electricity act which needs consent.
also it doesn't say a prepaid meter can be fitted. Surely if the meter us unsafe then they have to put the same kind of meter?
Gas Act 1986 … https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/44/section/18
I wouldn't worry about it tbh if you decide to go court(can't see why you would) just ask the judge one thing,for the gas/electric company to show your contract you both signed and it's terms and conditions.
where you have written: I have agreed to pay all bills in full upon receipt of
1) lawful contract; and
2) proper bill; and
3) full and complete statement of accounts.
- also add the legislations which apply. also a copy of your safety certificate if its gas.
Send a copy of a safety certificate to the collection agency/Utility supplier/court (they intend to apply to)... under the Gas Act - misleading the Court by saying they fear there may be a gas leak and you are denying entry... supply the safety certificate then they are stuffed... No warrant can be issued (even though it is a fake Warrant and they come from the utility companies... but that’s another story
Send the court a copy of your gas safety certificate then they cannot issue a warrant of entry as that can only be issued in regards to safety so phone court and ask who to send it to and the case number
The warrants are fake anyway and come from Northampton business centre, no judge signs them or anyone legally trained works there
yes I know but better to interrupt the process
I need to get a safety certificate luckily I've got gas and electric with two different suppliers and stopped the electric when my previous billing agent supposedly went bust last September and Ogem tried to force me with Shell energy they trying to chase me but I've told them I've not set up a account or have no contract with them
any corgi registered plumber or gas fitter can give you a certificate. It’s the system the check not the meter although they do pressure test the meter. Don’t tell them you changed it though as most are not awake enough to know it’s perfectly legal
So how do you stop letting them in
don’t open the door and put a trespass notice outside
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
FB POST - Contract Law Private Trusts
Question -
Can someone please help me please my energy supplier went bust back in November they passed on my details to Scottish Power without my permission I’m not in a contract with anybody then I received this letter today what can I do I’m going to get my metres changed soon I’ve heard of people paying up the final amount and then being free but why are they paying the final amount if we shouldn’t be paying anyway? 
Answers -
why ask? Don't sweat the small stuff. This is a debt collector a third party interloper, send them a DSAR stating they have No business with you
don't answer it. These people have no legal standing whatsoever. You have no contract with them. Send them a cease and desist order along with a DSAR
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ML16...ue&sd=true
edit that DSAR to suit the situation and send it to the Diretor of the debt collection scumbags
Notice how they've addressed you. Your name then /The Occupier. They are looking for joinder. They aren't sure if it's you or someone else at the property. You have no CONtract with them, it's not your problem that your previous supplier went bust. Ignore or return to sender.
please don't be worrying about it, we are all here to help each other. Look at how the letter is worded, it's full of unfounded threats we "can" doesn't mean they will. Have you made any contact with Scottish Power or this debt collection agency since your previous supplier went bust? The way I read this letter is that they are begging you to make contact so that they can create joinder with you. When there's no contract and no contact there's not a lot they can do. If they are going to try and get a warrant then they need to be sure it's in your legal fiction name. Don't worry about the threats of gaining entry to fit a pre payment meter, they can't do that for a monetary dispute.
When my supplier went bust I stupidly contacted Scottish power to ask why my details have been passed on to them I didn’t give any bank details or anything since then I have emailed to ask them for a copy of the contract that I would’ve signed in ink And they keep replying to say no contract needs to be signed they have sent so many emails constantly but I’ve never replied since so I did make contact at first Because I wasn’t aware back in November of any of this fraud xx
I'm in the same situation. My energy company went bust last September and Octopus took over. I stupidly sent them a couple of readings and they had my warm home discount, too. They've given me a deadline of the 19th - so this Tuesday - to respond. I'm dithering as to what to do. On the one hand, people say it's a cleaner cut-off if you pay anything outstanding up to when you put your meters in. But I resent the outrageous charges for energy that I didn't consent to. Don't know what to do for the best.
there's a few ways you can deal with this. Like Peter advised, send them the DSAR and fight back. They are likely to not send what you've asked for and delay things. If they do that you can take it to the ICO. It will take many months to get a response from them as the have a backlog before your complaint gets passed on to a case officer. Scottish Power now have joinder with you and will continue to pester. They say they don't need to provide a contract as it's based on a "deemed contract" which is fraudulent to start with. You can also completely ignore them for now on and block the emails (if you have that option) and return to sender all letters. Or if you are getting your own meters fitted, you could pay them and that will end the matter. My personal way of dealing with them would be to ignore until they follow through with their threats and then call them out on their fraud x
Companies House information….. https://find-and-update.company-informat...1/officers
Question -
Hi All,
Just received this letter from a debt collection company applying for a warrant in order to install pre payment meters or collect money.
As far as I know, and correct me if I’m wrong, using what is in effect a criminal warrant for a monetary issue is illegal. Also, forcing entry can only apply if there is a health and safety risk.
Anyway, a court hearing is due in about 3 weeks so any help and advice on the best way forward would be great…
I’m going to send a letter along the following lines …
I have agreed to pay all bills in full upon receipt of
1) lawful contract; and
2) proper bill; and
3) full and complete statement of accounts.
For clarity, a lawful contract will include;
a) full disclosure [nothing added or removed after signing]; and
b) consideration [all signatories get what they want from the contract]; and
c) lawful terms and conditions [only fair!]; and
d) the wet signatures of all contracting parties.
Bill senders are reminded full VAT receipts are required for any and all transactions.
Answers -
They have stated in the paperwork they are using the gas act which can only gain entry for health and safety (gas leak) as you mentioned and then use the electricity act to change the meters once in the property. You can either deadbolt the doors inside as they can only drill the lock (no forced entry allowed) or you can turn up to the court with a recent gas safety certificate to have the warrant withdrawn. They are applying for a criminal warrant for monetary purpose which is the wrong jurisdiction.
can they only drill ONE lock though?
If no one is at home... you cany bolt it. So.. we can add locks with key....?
you can buy electronic door handles which are a thing now which are keyless and you open with an app on the phone so no lock to drill. If they see three keyholes they may try and drill all of them, I have fitted three deadbolts on front and back door but not drilled the keyhole through so only work when I'm in the property. I do have a rear gate that is locked, so they should not access that area but they do break the law.
I have fitted some remote controlled bolts which can be locked/unlocked from the outside
If you haven't done so already, change your meters and when they come show them the old ones. This should stop them. It worked for us. Any attempt to remove your property is theft.
yes, was thinking about that but not sure whether to do it right now or not…
This letter isn’t even signed
correct, so it’s more of a threat I would have thought
Yes exactly that I have not paid electric in years and just bin their letters. I live in council flats so hard for them to do anything,they would properly need permission from council to damage the door to the meter. For gas safety i'm not sure as I thought you can get an approved contractor to do that without your gas company approval.
No wet ink and it is not a warrant. lol!
All energy companies are operating as credit brokers and are supposed to tell you, mine does. So under the consumer credit act 1974 a signed credit agreement has to be signed by both parties section 61. Also under section 155 it says we're protected and if no credit agreement has been signed anything over £5 has to be refunded. Citizens advice have lots of useful information on this …. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/197...ection/155
Credit brokers explained … https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-a...explained/
Taking action over credit brokers … https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-a...t-brokers/
Thats interesting as their own legislation states the debt (bill whatever) is unenforceable same as debt collectors.
If the grid has been sold to Australia would the .gov websites into still apply?
Yeah the companies are still registered under companies house
Under the gas and electric act 2006 section 4 they are not allowed to fit a prepaid metre to collect a debt and if they do they are committing perjury upon you. I was nearly a victim of this
most people don't know this Frank!!!
Did you go to the court to challenge it?
didn't have to I proved the fraud
So you just did it via letters and notices after they sent you a notice to say they were coming to fit a prepayment meter? And was this dealing direct with the utility company? Sorry to ask a lot of questions, but it's always great to hear from people who have actually done it.
no paperwork the turned up up went to change m i show them what they were doing was perjury they took the m out their own M Out and left with me with nothing
So, did you put your own in after that?
Point number 4 …. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/2011/made
I had British Gas turn up to my property and change my metered to prepaid when I wasn’t home! I had no idea they are committing perjury!!
Wonder if there is a way I can have them change back?!
County Courts Act 1984 … https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/198...ection/135
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/198...ection/135
135
Penalty for falsely pretending to act under authority of court.
Any person who—
(a)
delivers or causes to be delivered to any other person any paper falsely purporting to be a copy of any summons or other process of [F1the county court] , knowing it to be false; or
(b)
acts or professes to act under any false colour or pretence of the process or authority of [F1the county court] ;
shall be guilty of an offence and shall for each offence be liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years.
So you paid a qualified engineer to change your gas meter and, for whatever reason, you find yourself with enforcement agents (and possibly police) at your door waving around a “warrant of entry” claiming that they have grounds due to the possibility you have an unsafe device fitted.
What are you going to do?
1. Do not answer to or give your name
2. Ask to see the warrant
3. Check the warrant is valid with local court
4. Ask what grounds they have for their claim
Do not let them in. If you find yourself in a situation where you feel you have no choice or they gain access without your permission then please take note of the following information that I found in the gas act legislation.
2)
The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision for empowering any officer authorised by the relevant authority—
(a)
to enter any premises in which there is a service pipe connected with a gas main, for the purpose of inspecting any gas fitting on the premises, any flue or means of ventilation used in connection with any such gas fitting, or [F2any part of the gas system on the premises, that is to say,]any service pipe or other apparatus (not being a gas fitting) which is on the premises and is used for the [F2conveyance or]supply of gas or is connected with a gas main;
(b)
where he so enters any such premises, to examine or apply any test to any such object as is mentioned in paragraph (a) above and (where the object is a gas fitting) to verify what supply of air is available for it; and
©
where in his opinion it is necessary to do so for the purpose of averting danger to life or property, and notwithstanding any contract previously existing, to disconnect and seal off any gas fitting or any part of the [F3gas system on the premises, or disconnect the premises or, if the premises are not connected, to signify the refusal of the relevant authority to convey gas or, as the case may be, allow gas to be conveyed to the premises].
(3)
Where any regulations under subsection (2) above confer any power in accordance with paragraph © of that subsection, the regulations shall also include provision—
(a)
for securing that, where any such power is exercised, the consumer will be notified as to the nature of the defect or other circumstances in consequence of which it has been exercised;
(b)
for enabling any consumer so notified to appeal to the Secretary of State on the grounds that the defect or other circumstances in question did not constitute a danger such as to justify the action taken in the exercise of the power, or did not exist or have ceased to exist; and
©
for enabling the Secretary of State to give such directions as may in accordance with the regulations be determined by him to be appropriate in consequence of any such appeal.
It means that should they enter your property and make the decision to remove the meter you had fitted and replace it or cap your supply pending a reconnection process then they must inform you of why they are taking any action. They are limited to safety issues in order to remove a device or interrupt your supply.
If they can present no safety issue then they can not remove your property.
They must also inform you of your right to appeal their decision.
Again, these bullies are entering peoples homes and not following the regulations by which they are bound and WE are allowing them to get away with it.
Please share this information and never forget that knowledge is power.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/44/section/18
great info there Julie! Many thanks
your welcome we've got to stick together
Correct, nothing in the act states the removal of property for a monetary issue. That's why they use the 1989 electricity act which needs consent.
also it doesn't say a prepaid meter can be fitted. Surely if the meter us unsafe then they have to put the same kind of meter?
Gas Act 1986 … https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/44/section/18
I wouldn't worry about it tbh if you decide to go court(can't see why you would) just ask the judge one thing,for the gas/electric company to show your contract you both signed and it's terms and conditions.
where you have written: I have agreed to pay all bills in full upon receipt of
1) lawful contract; and
2) proper bill; and
3) full and complete statement of accounts.
- also add the legislations which apply. also a copy of your safety certificate if its gas.
Send a copy of a safety certificate to the collection agency/Utility supplier/court (they intend to apply to)... under the Gas Act - misleading the Court by saying they fear there may be a gas leak and you are denying entry... supply the safety certificate then they are stuffed... No warrant can be issued (even though it is a fake Warrant and they come from the utility companies... but that’s another story
Send the court a copy of your gas safety certificate then they cannot issue a warrant of entry as that can only be issued in regards to safety so phone court and ask who to send it to and the case number
The warrants are fake anyway and come from Northampton business centre, no judge signs them or anyone legally trained works there
yes I know but better to interrupt the process
I need to get a safety certificate luckily I've got gas and electric with two different suppliers and stopped the electric when my previous billing agent supposedly went bust last September and Ogem tried to force me with Shell energy they trying to chase me but I've told them I've not set up a account or have no contract with them
any corgi registered plumber or gas fitter can give you a certificate. It’s the system the check not the meter although they do pressure test the meter. Don’t tell them you changed it though as most are not awake enough to know it’s perfectly legal
So how do you stop letting them in
don’t open the door and put a trespass notice outside
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
FB POST - Contract Law Private Trusts
Question -
Can someone please help me please my energy supplier went bust back in November they passed on my details to Scottish Power without my permission I’m not in a contract with anybody then I received this letter today what can I do I’m going to get my metres changed soon I’ve heard of people paying up the final amount and then being free but why are they paying the final amount if we shouldn’t be paying anyway? 
Answers -
why ask? Don't sweat the small stuff. This is a debt collector a third party interloper, send them a DSAR stating they have No business with you
don't answer it. These people have no legal standing whatsoever. You have no contract with them. Send them a cease and desist order along with a DSAR
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ML16...ue&sd=true
edit that DSAR to suit the situation and send it to the Diretor of the debt collection scumbags
Notice how they've addressed you. Your name then /The Occupier. They are looking for joinder. They aren't sure if it's you or someone else at the property. You have no CONtract with them, it's not your problem that your previous supplier went bust. Ignore or return to sender.
please don't be worrying about it, we are all here to help each other. Look at how the letter is worded, it's full of unfounded threats we "can" doesn't mean they will. Have you made any contact with Scottish Power or this debt collection agency since your previous supplier went bust? The way I read this letter is that they are begging you to make contact so that they can create joinder with you. When there's no contract and no contact there's not a lot they can do. If they are going to try and get a warrant then they need to be sure it's in your legal fiction name. Don't worry about the threats of gaining entry to fit a pre payment meter, they can't do that for a monetary dispute.
When my supplier went bust I stupidly contacted Scottish power to ask why my details have been passed on to them I didn’t give any bank details or anything since then I have emailed to ask them for a copy of the contract that I would’ve signed in ink And they keep replying to say no contract needs to be signed they have sent so many emails constantly but I’ve never replied since so I did make contact at first Because I wasn’t aware back in November of any of this fraud xx
I'm in the same situation. My energy company went bust last September and Octopus took over. I stupidly sent them a couple of readings and they had my warm home discount, too. They've given me a deadline of the 19th - so this Tuesday - to respond. I'm dithering as to what to do. On the one hand, people say it's a cleaner cut-off if you pay anything outstanding up to when you put your meters in. But I resent the outrageous charges for energy that I didn't consent to. Don't know what to do for the best.
there's a few ways you can deal with this. Like Peter advised, send them the DSAR and fight back. They are likely to not send what you've asked for and delay things. If they do that you can take it to the ICO. It will take many months to get a response from them as the have a backlog before your complaint gets passed on to a case officer. Scottish Power now have joinder with you and will continue to pester. They say they don't need to provide a contract as it's based on a "deemed contract" which is fraudulent to start with. You can also completely ignore them for now on and block the emails (if you have that option) and return to sender all letters. Or if you are getting your own meters fitted, you could pay them and that will end the matter. My personal way of dealing with them would be to ignore until they follow through with their threats and then call them out on their fraud x
Companies House information….. https://find-and-update.company-informat...1/officers